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8 Responses to “Your Sovereignty”

  1. Patty said

    I have a question for Steve. You mentioned abut having no empathy for Kim when she was upset. My husband is talking about divorce and he just seems so mad at me. How can I get to at least see my side or at least show some conderation for my feelings. I am very emotional and have been since I was a kid. He seems to think that I am useing this to get some sympthy from him. How can I get him to see his softer side at least at home.

  2. amy rohde said

    I found there was NO getting my side heard. I was ALWAYS too emotional or overreactive about his behavior or how I feel. It was very frustrating. No amount of sweetness or calmness mattered. He just simply could not or would not recognize me as a valuable part of the team. The more I accepted things as they were , the higher he raised the bar of bad behavior. The only time in our marriage things were good for everyone BUT me was when I just smiled kept my mouth shut and just absorbed the abuse without holding my boundries. I finally had to stand my ground when he threw us into 120000 in debt without my knowledge.He was good at hiding stuff. Our councellor actually reinforced his behaviors as well confusing me further.We are separated now. Long story short The higher the bar the higher my struggle to take care of my emotions. Now I can handle a tremendous amount of challenge with little stress. Thank God.

  3. kimcooper said

    Hi Patty,

    Steve is really caught up at present with a problem we have had on the help desk. Your husband dropping his defenses and having empathy for you may or may not happen and is really the aim of our whole program. Unfortunately there is not one simple answer to that. The most simple advice I can give you besides reading our ebooks is to work on being less emotional and taking time out on your own to find your own happiness again once you have become upset. Be honest that you are hurt by what he is doing without being overly emotional and show him the qualities of strength in yourself that he was first attracted to in you. You will also need to learn how to protect yourself from abuse and abusive conversations. There is a series of free articles you might also get a lot of benefit from at my other blog here;

    http://kimcoopersblog.blogspot.com/

    Hang in there!

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

  4. Patty said

    Thanks for writing back. But He just texted me and said have a nice life. I guess what i have learned in these past few months reading the material you have put together. I have become stronger but have a long way to go. But I don’t know what to do anymore. He keeps me on a rollercoaster i don’t know wheather i am up or down. We have been married 23 years i have put up with affairs since 6months into our marriage. Not to mention the step son I now have because of his affairs. Not to mention all the other girls. And now he does not want to try any more it is his way or the highway. He also does not reconize me as a valuable part of the team like Amy said above. He thinks this is all my fault and that he is blameless in all this. It takes two to tango. So we are both at fault not just one. But I don’t understand I still want him back. Why am i so mixed up. Well I see if he actually means what he just said. I let you know
    Patty

  5. HM said

    Dear Patty

    How are you doing? I see from this post that it was nearly a month ago. I have been sending posts to ‘Narcissism’ here and not to any of the others, we have a nice little ‘support group’ going there, perhaps you should pop in. Maybe you already have been reading some of the things myself and others have shared.

    Take heart Patty please, you are not alone in the confusion, we have all been there. It goes hand in hand with being involved/loving an N. I have personally felt as though I have been to hell and back this past 14 months with my ex boyfriend and can also add 20 years of marriage to that prior.

    The emotional roller coaster is so common with all of us, they build us up and knock us down, we never know which way is up, they blow hot and cold and then of course as with Newton’s Cradle, there is the old law of cause and effect. We respond to them in a particular way which usually exacerbates their behaviour and even enables them to continue to treat us badly.

    I can only advise you to read as much as you can here, purchase the downloads on the Co-dependency package, it is well worth very penny! I recently purchased it when Kim and Steve ran a special half price offer on it! Even after the 1st time I listened to it, I felt enormously better.

    I am still on the recovery road, I have been in cold turkey for the past few weeks as it had been a month since I had last seen my ex boyfriend. We split up 2 weeks ago and today he came and collected his many things from my home. I was fine when he was here, but we had a hug to say goodbye, and I nearly fell apart in front of him. I have been weeping since he left 6 hours ago! I am crying for all the good times and the bad, I am also crying tears of relief, that no longer am I going to be subjected to his intentionally cruel remarks and criticisms, his emotional unavailability and his mean ways with money AND last but not least, the fact that this past 2 years has been about deceit on his part. That I think is the one thing that hurts the most.

    Please do not underestimate the power of the N to make you feel bad. I know Kim and Steve have turned it around, but not every N can do that! Kim will give you the tools here to help you, but I really do feel that some cannot be helped even if you yourself are giving all you can to heal them! What springs to mind is the analogy of ‘You can take the horse to water, but you can’t make him drink’

    My heart goes out to you because I have been where you are and oh so recently!

    Take care of yourself and your children, this is paramount to anything else. IF you really feel that you cannot bear another moment of put downs and that your children may be better off without their father seeing you being berated perhaps then you must do what you must do. None of us here can tell you what to do, you yourself have to make that ultimate decision. It was hard for me to end my marriage 11 years ago after nearly 20 years with an N. One of my children was having counselling, she was only 10! It was a culmination of things, she was being bullied relentlessly at school, but I am not blind to the fact that she also was very unhappy at home, she told her psychologist that she hated the way her father spoke to me, it made her feel sad! That hurts me even today to think that she felt that way! My son on the other hand, cannot even talk about it and has completely blocked 2 occasions when he saw his father physically abuse me in front of him, once when he was about 4 and another time when he was 11. My daughter’s psychologist took me aside one day and said to me that I should end my marriage for the sake of my children. That has haunted me for 15 years! It took me 4 years AFTER that to actually go through with it. I ALWAYS hoped and prayed for my husband to change his ways. I wanted back the man that I had fallen in love with and married,the man who had swept me off my feet with his charms, the man whose children I had borne. I placed much more importance on my marraige and the vows I took than ever he did.

    I had been widowed very young the 1st time around and he was my 2nd chance of happiness or so I thought. In truth, he was not. He lied to me, cheated on me, never spent any time or money on me or the children, kept me short of money for all the time we were married, yet he had the clothes and spent his money on his interests and pursuits. (women included). I was not only verbally abused and physically also from time to time. I was continuously under threat though of beatings and even my life. It still hurts all these years on.

    Imagine though, if I were still with him and the children had grown up and left, that was my deciding decision to end it. I kept thinking, what am I going to do when the children have left home? It took more strength to end it though than it did to stay.

    One of the things that an N will do to you, is to make sure that your self esteem is rock bottom, hence it was so hard to find that STOP button on that roller coaster and say to myself for myself……’Hey enough is enough’.

    We separated and my children were teenagers, it was hard financially for us but we managed .. we got through! I sometimes thought I would crack under the strain but at least the financial difficulties were mine, I owned them, rather than being forced into them. I cannot say to you though that my children are completely balanced, both my children have self esteem issues and they are both in their 20’s. I do think though that they would have been more off balance if I had stayed with their father.

    He has a partner now and still does not put the kids first, he rarely sees our granddaughter and I have to say that is the ONLY time since splitting up from him and divorcing him that I have regretted ending it and that was when our granddaughter was born. I felt sad that I could not share this wonderful and amazing time with him. I felt sad also when I saw the relationships my friends who have still being married to the same men for 30 years or more and are happy and how they are sharing their grandchildren experiences. Something I could not ever hope now to have.

    Moving on though, life is getting better, slowly…its all about little baby steps, not the big ones that we think we should be taking. I have found so much help and support on here, I cannot recommend it highly enough to you. I started here early January and have moved my life on in a positive way for me. I have ended it just recently with my boyfriend who also had this disorder. I figured it out by googling his traits, you know the usual ones .. lack of empathy, cruel comments and put down, never saying sorry, or being accountable, and each time it came up with NPD. I found this site and well all I can say is that without it, I probably would have stayed with him and still been enduring the torment of a fractured and dysfunctional relationship.

    With all due respect to Kim and Steve, they set this site up together, to show that with love and a tremendous amount of work, they HAVE found the answer. It has worked for them and as Kim said above, not everyone will find the same answer here. But if you want to make it work, then there is no better place on the web, in getting that help. Any other site will tell you to run a mile!

    Look after yourself please and remember that one day your children will not be children, they will fly the nest. You have to think about the future for you too as much as anything!

    HM

  6. Patty said

    thanks for taking the time to write all that to me. It sounds very close to the life i live or have lived. I have been reading on Kim and Steves site for a long time i think it was around june of last year that i first found this site. When i left because he just did care about my thoughts or feelings. I like the info and think it is very helpfull to not let the people in your life run over you. Just because they should protect what is theirs doesn’t mean that they will do that. I think that is where i get all messed up, no matter what other people did i could trust the people in my family thay will protect me. But that is not what i married into, it is look out for number one no one else will. i want to move forward whether it is with him or without i am tired of the rollercoaster i want off. I need to know which way is up. I do not want to give up on my marriage but I can not put up with what has been going on. I will not go back to the way things were. I have fallen like a vase to the floor i am in a thousand pieces. I am tring to pick them up not try to break them even futher.
    Thanks for Writing
    Patty

  7. HM said

    Hi Patty

    At the end of the day only you know whether you want to stay with your husband or not. I wish there was more I could say, but do feel I have said it all. The only thing I can say is that I know that I have been able to break free from 2 N’s in my life, one was my husband of nearly 20 years marrriage and the 2nd one, the boyfriend of 2 years relationship. I have also to say though that maybe if I had known about this condition all those years ago, I MAY have been able to have moved forward with my husband. Having said that without this site and its members for support, I very much doubt we would have made it through to the other end, he would not ever have accepted that he had any part to play in the problems we encountered! So who knows what the outcome may have been. With the boyfriend I found out about the site and disorder way too late.

    There are no hard and fast rules and certainly NO EASY answers to any of the things you are experiencing right now. I can only say that you must think about your own health in all this. I know so well what you mean about being broken into a thousand pieces and I really felt for you when reading that. The emotional roller coaster we find ourselves on is created by their complete lack of emotional and mental stability. It is the most difficult thing to do to love a narcissist. It makes me shudder sometimes when I remember some of the memories of events in the short 2 years with my most recent experience and I am absolutely flummoxed when I wonder why I put up with it from him and my ex husband. It really made me wonder what was wrong with me to allow such behaviour from either/both of them!

    In ending this latest relationship though, I have taken on board what has been said on this site both by Kim and Steve and by CD, who writes on the Narcissism blog a lot. I have a lot of time for her, she really has such a good handle on it all it seems! Take a look on there and see what advice you can gleam from her previous posts. I think my situation is so different as I am not married to the recent N, had I been or shared children, then it would have most likely been a different outcome.

    Now I just feel I am well out of it and that I no longer have to lose sleep over this man anymore. Do you know I feel so much calmer and at peace now than I have felt since knowing him. Even when things were good in the beginning and trust me they seemed like the best times to me and I thought they were here to stay, I still even then always had this niggling feeling that something was not right about him… that there was something I could not put my finger on. How right I was, shame it did not wake me up a bit sooner though! I would have saved myself a lot of heartache and saved my friends a lot of time in trying to help me! I thought I was the one who was crazy, I really did start to think I was going mad with all that he was doing to me.

    Take care and look after you!!

    HM x

  8. Jennifer L said

    Listened to ‘Sovereignty’ today. The phrase ‘insane loyalties’ from the Patrick Carnes book ‘The Betrayal Bond’ springs to mind.I ignored my intuition(how my higher power speaks to me) and overrode it with the static of obsession.I need a bigger God than my brain.For me personally,this behavior was part of a sex and love addiction and codependence. I’ve never allowed anyone to hit me and they’d be in jail and I’d be gone at once if anyone tried that,period. In that case running away is sometimes beneficial. But pulling a geographic without correcting the pattern can guarantee more of those types.I put up with some stupid shit and said nothing. I am passionate about my creativity, that is my center. If someone wants to hurt me, he’s gone immediately now because I’ve already learned what I needed to know about him. Learning to nurture and value myself. Corny, but true.

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